Bone up Metro Times!
I just want to thank metro times again for once again taking my name and slamming it without context or consulting me.
"Blogger Ann Gordon's entry for "Chamber of Commerce" (dated Nov. 19) wasn't one of her finer moments, however. She apparently didn't know who Glascock and Hall were yet burbled on blithely nonetheless. The comment about some work looking like "art you would find at a garage sale" was especially inane. What would Gordon have said in 1917 about Duchamp's "Fountain" or in 1963 about Warhol's "Brillo Box" sculptures? What about Mike Kelley today?So here's a suggested New Year's resolution for anyone who wants to write about art and culture in Detroit: Bone up on the subject matter. Ignorance is the main reason Detroit has a rep it simply doesn't deserve."
I have held back from commenting about the subject but it is just ridiculous when a whole article is devoted to the tone of saying I don't understand detroit arts. Half the art I put up on the blog is strange and - I would say - unordinary, so I don't know where carducci came up with his razor thin premise! I don't even know where to begin because if you actually read the whole entry it doesn't slam the show...it talks more about the idea behind it. Also, in regards to the "garage art" comment noted, Goody explained to me that some of the items were worth nothing and others were priceless collectables: maybe something of what you would find at a garage sale?
"This area behind the yellow chain ropes is a recreation of their drawing room and the art and furniture within it. Goody pointed out to me that some of the work in the room is estimated at $50k (like the oval painting)...which for me was surprising because some of it looked like art you would find at a garage sale ...but to tell the difference for me was nearly impossible!" Nov 19, detroitartsblog.
I also just read this comment today:
mark creegan said... "i dont live in Detroit but I love this blog and I am TOTALY amazed by the quality of work coming out of Detroit. Really, what is in Ya'll's water?"
So thanks, vince, because the more said about the blog only gets more people reading and since my blog actually covered that show WHILE IT WAS STILL UP AND PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY GO AND SEE IT, my blog will continue to do more for the community than your "great" paper.
"Blogger Ann Gordon's entry for "Chamber of Commerce" (dated Nov. 19) wasn't one of her finer moments, however. She apparently didn't know who Glascock and Hall were yet burbled on blithely nonetheless. The comment about some work looking like "art you would find at a garage sale" was especially inane. What would Gordon have said in 1917 about Duchamp's "Fountain" or in 1963 about Warhol's "Brillo Box" sculptures? What about Mike Kelley today?So here's a suggested New Year's resolution for anyone who wants to write about art and culture in Detroit: Bone up on the subject matter. Ignorance is the main reason Detroit has a rep it simply doesn't deserve."
I have held back from commenting about the subject but it is just ridiculous when a whole article is devoted to the tone of saying I don't understand detroit arts. Half the art I put up on the blog is strange and - I would say - unordinary, so I don't know where carducci came up with his razor thin premise! I don't even know where to begin because if you actually read the whole entry it doesn't slam the show...it talks more about the idea behind it. Also, in regards to the "garage art" comment noted, Goody explained to me that some of the items were worth nothing and others were priceless collectables: maybe something of what you would find at a garage sale?
"This area behind the yellow chain ropes is a recreation of their drawing room and the art and furniture within it. Goody pointed out to me that some of the work in the room is estimated at $50k (like the oval painting)...which for me was surprising because some of it looked like art you would find at a garage sale ...but to tell the difference for me was nearly impossible!" Nov 19, detroitartsblog.
I also just read this comment today:
mark creegan said... "i dont live in Detroit but I love this blog and I am TOTALY amazed by the quality of work coming out of Detroit. Really, what is in Ya'll's water?"
So thanks, vince, because the more said about the blog only gets more people reading and since my blog actually covered that show WHILE IT WAS STILL UP AND PEOPLE COULD ACTUALLY GO AND SEE IT, my blog will continue to do more for the community than your "great" paper.
posted by art blogs are fun at 9:28 AM
51 Comments:
you go girl!
carducci was correct in his critisism of the dailies, as they pay NO ATTENTION to what is going on in the visual arts community, and they dont care. Laura Berman totally has her head up where the sun dont show.
but his remarks on this blog were totally misguided, unfounded, wrong. Ann observes, then shares her observations! Just as Carducci does. Observations come in all colors and shapes----based on the experience of the observer. I dare say that even though Ann may not have the depth and bredth of Carducci, she doesnt pretend to be something she is not.
At least she puts it out there for discussion. Where is Carduccis blog?
Maybe he feels threatened by your support and the growth of your blog. It's political.
Carducci said: [Gordon] apparently didn't know who Glascock and Hall were yet burbled on blithely nonetheless. The comment about some work looking like "art you would find at a garage sale" was especially inane. What would Gordon have said in 1917 about Duchamp's "Fountain" or in 1963 about Warhol's "Brillo Box" sculptures? What about Mike Kelley today?
Me say: Carducci is a cloying ass. "Ann didn't know who they were"... As if credentials create the art and make it good. Just cause our local Danny Devito is their good bud, doesn't make these two global art stars.
Much of this show was a mess, and not good art - whoever created it.
And how do you compare this junk-output to a Duchamp or a Warhol! You don't. It's inane to try!
keep up the good work Ann,,,,
you have many supporters......
This is a blog, and you can say whatever you'd like. You do a great job of covering the local arts scene!
Actually, though, you should thank him for the publicity!! Your blog will have more hits than ever!!
that whole scenario is hilarious. really. I have never read anything like that in any newspaper, metro times or other, before. hilarious.
the metro times has been phoning it in for the last couple years. their arts and music coverage are both poor.
did you see their "music issue" recently? what a joke. they all but ignored hip-hop and put a band on the cover that is going nowhere and has already been covered to death. some "great" paper indeed.
hell, real detroit is better than them and it's 80% ads!
Ann, keep up the good work and don't let this bother you.
I've been reading and enjoying your blog for awhile now and I've never felt as if your attempting to be an "art critic" in the manner of someone like Vince Carducci.
I'm certainly not suggesting that you don't share interesting insights and opinions (some of which I've agreed with and others I don't), but you don't seem to be trying to act as if your voice and opinion has more "authority" over others.
You have a point of view with likes and dislikes like everyone else and I read your blog and think of you as a "fan" more than a critic.
I don't get to see every show and for me your blog has filled the "hole" of non-existent art coverage in this town and by choosing the blog form you can continue to do this in a more timely and profuse manner then any other news source.
While some Internet blogs do try and challenge the traditional news sources I've never felt this was your aim.
Forty years ago their were only a handful of critics. Nowadays with the internet someone like Carducci has to compete with alot more voices.
Some traditional journalists do in fact feel threatened by the blogosphere. There pissed because now anyone can skip the degree, do a little investigating, and share their own two cents about any news story and get more coverage in the end. While it is true that not every blogger is qualified to discuss "quantum physics" next to a guy with a Phd, when it comes to looking and talking about art, no opinion is less valid, they just may not be as enlightening or interesting to read.
Ann, your blog is not contributing to the bad reputation of the local art scene, people like Carducci are doing this by choosing to pick petty fights and publish stupid arguments that only serve to be self destructive to the whole rather then help the overall good. There certainly needs to be criticism in this town when it comes to the arts but Carducci published a cheap shot and he is simply employing tabloid tactics at best. Make noise, be controversial, and unconstructive.
Ann,
You do a great job covering local art events. However, as a local "gallery worker", I have to say that we often hide the Price List when we see you coming.
I don't think you realize that saying something along the lines of "garage-sale art" can really hurt an artists' prices, thus hurting their income....especially a local artist.
You really need to do your homework when it comes what you can and cannot say about pricing art.
You are not only hurting other artists when you make coments regarding their prices, but also, yourself...you are ruining your chances of selling your own art! No matter the quality, just having your name on it would be a turn off to buyers due to your ignorance.
In a nutshell, Carducci is correct. Spend a bit more time educating yourself on how the business of art is conducted.
One of these days you're going to find yourself being sued for slander or defimation of character.
P.S. I'm forwarding this to Vince Carducci.
previous anon,
my comments about "garage art" were about their collection: not their own art. Their collection had items from super expensive to basically worth nothing...not a knock at the work, just a comment on their range in their collection. And I do know a thing or two about the business of art - why don't we have a serious chat I and I will enlighten you.
smiles
Vince Carducci is an idiot. I don't even bother to read his blathering. Just a tool.
"I am forwarding this to Vince Carducci."
Ohhhhh...
That is fucking hilarious.
You have to be kidding anon?
Ann, you've said it twice now that you were referring to the collectibles as appearing to be "garage sale" items and not art. People still don't get it. Do they read?
Also, I didn't realize you had some much power over the pricing of art in this town?
Ann,
Go ahead, "enlighhten me". However, I've seen your style and it is most certainly not professional. From your hair to your personality, "professional" is an adjective that does not describe you. You can be an art critic or an art dealer, but you cannot be both. Good luck on your future endeavors, but rest assured, due to your blog, you will never find success in a Michigan gallery.
Limit your blog to posting art events and images from those events...and leave it at that.
Ann,
I know your blog has good intentions, but as I said before, limit it to art event listings and images...just doing that will be much appreciated by Detroit Art-goers.
Anonymous:
Wow, for a pathetic "gallery worker" you seem to have a lot power. Are you everyone's friend in town? Seeing that you can speak on behalf of all "Detroit Art-goers."
You sound like one incredibly pathetic individual and very professional I might add since your resorting to personal attacks and threats.
The gallery owner you work for would be very proud.
Yet another great example of a do nothing "gallery worker" (probably bitter artist or critic), who couldn't cut it and wants to bring everyone else down doing something worthwhile.
Scum
People like Anon hurt Detroit and its art scene: by laying down rules as to what can and can't be said or written; and, if rules be broken, who can and can't show their art in Detroit.
A few years ago Vince Carducci, professional that he is, blithely wrote an article in an art magazine attacking an exhibition he never saw and about an artist to whom he never spoke - how inane is that!
Dear Tired and Weary....
I am only a peon in a small gallery in the city of Detroit selling local artists, mostly student and recent-graduates' work.
Not so long ago I overheard a client who wanted to pay far less for a piece than was being asked. Why, you ask? Because they said that they were a reader of Ann's blog and saw that another art dealer sold the artists' work for far less months earlier.
All I am trying to say is that Ann needs to be careful of what she posts.
Just like the rest of you, this is only my opinion.
And, no...I am not an artist or a critic or an art dealer. I'm just someone who enjoys art and who needs to make a buck.
Dear Tired and Weary....
I am only a peon in a small gallery in the city of Detroit selling local artists, mostly student and recent-graduates' work.
Not so long ago I overheard a client who wanted to pay far less for a piece than was being asked. Why, you ask? Because they said that they were a reader of Ann's blog and saw that another art dealer sold the artists' work for far less months earlier.
All I am trying to say is that Ann needs to be careful of what she posts.
Just like the rest of you, this is only my opinion.
And, no...I am not an artist or a critic or an art dealer. I'm just someone who enjoys art and who needs to make a buck.
I was going to drop this in an email, but everyone needs a little public ego stroking, especially when they're the subject of a flame war.
For the record, I do not know ann. Our paths did not cross at CCS, and I don't live in Detroit anymore. I ended up on this site for work purposes: I was researching blogs and especially looking for "unknown" bloggers (i.e. Those who are blogging without the commercial endorsements--- yet) in the art and literature fields. Everything from lulu.com to blogger to urbis to myspace. At the end of my research I will be asked by the company who has contracted my time to nominate the blogs that I would recommend they sink endorsement dollars into. I read this blog every day, partly because this type of flamming is hilarious, and partly because I genuinly admire her dedication. I wish she would risk putting MORE opinions up. If you read her blog next to the nine-zillion others (I know, because I've been reading A LOT of them), her's is very much already "just pictures".
My point is this. Ann doesn't hide behind anonymity like many bloggers can/do. She posts diliigently and without (as far as I can tell) compensation. I find it ironic that, on the other hand, that the anonymous "Gallery Owner" won't attach her professional reputation to her juvenile statments: hence the Anonymity. Really spineless.
Some people are so caught up in Detroit that they fail to realize that the internet broadcasts internationally. Blogs have an appeal that is not as geographically bounded as, say, the metro times or one local gallery. There is a bigger world out there, filled with opportunities. For this reason, blogs are incredibly powerful. Please CC that to --what'shisname?-- Carducci. Never heard of him. But, then, the MetroTimes isn't exactly the Globe.
Where is his blog?
Oh, anon, also please tell Vince to google himself. Ann's post about him comes up first, twice before any of his actual work or bio. I bet that will get his knickers in a twist. It's evident who's getting more hits, aka exposure, aka coverage, aka notice... I know those things are usually important to journalists, too.
Ann,
Why not try to write an arts column for the Detroit News/Freepress? I know they need someone badly!
I do apologize for coments I made earlier.
I think your opinions might be better accepted, certainly moreso than Vince's, if you wrote for a REAL newspaper.
Crap, now you people are going to jump all over me again for saying that Metrotimes is not a real newspaper.
Dear M.
I am not an owner, rather a gallery "phone-answerer"...coffee-maker, etc. I just have big ears.
Newspapers are dying. Why would you want to jump on that boat, when electronic media is the future.
Seriously, anon, do you READ. Time Magazine named the coveted 2006's person of the year as --- blog writers. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16242528/from/RSS/
NEW YORK - You were named Time magazine “Person of the Year” on Saturday for the explosive growth and influence of user-generated Internet content such as blogs, video-file sharing site YouTube and social network MySpace.
“For seizing the reins of the global media, for founding and framing the new digital democracy, for working for nothing and beating the pros at their own game, Time’s Person of the Year for 2006 is you,” the magazine’s Lev Grossman wrote.
The magazine has put a mirror on the cover of its “Person of the Year” issue, released on Monday, “because it literally reflects the idea that you, not us, are transforming the information age,” Editor Richard Stengel said in a statement.
anon, sorry I misread. And I'm going to let the whole Big Ears comment go because, well, it's just too easy.
Bloggers? Are you serious? That's rather sad as I'd imagine most bloggers are 20-somethings who live in their parents' basements.
Shit, I just outed myself.
Dear M.,
I like you. You know how to debate. Not to mention you sound more professional (you know how to site your material) than most other bloggers.
Now, if you'll pardon me, my mom just called me up for dinner.
dear anon.
slander is for spoken word. libel is for print (and this blog qualifies as print). definmation of character is a general term that encompasses both. try to learn about things before you write about them.
http://www.eff.org/bloggers/lg/faq-defamation.php
actually, you can make a tidy profit from blogging--- more than a tidy profit. And more large corporations are looking into it for advertizing, etc. (hence my contract). Wasn't it you who said you were just someone who enjoyed art and needed to make a buck, right? Many blog writers are highly educated, PDH+, because the highly educated people were the first to recognize the trend (created, yes, by preteens living in their mothers' basements). I've found there is a correlation between education and ratio of endorsements, and the mommy-blogs are definitly the best for that because they're written primarily by PDH's who retired to have babies and are bored silly by the mundanity.
You got me there. But that is exactly what I was trying to tell Ann...
"try to learn about things before you write about them."
Ok, now my mom's getting pissed, I have to go upstairs for dinner.
cite.
Dear M.,
Mom let me bring my dinner to my room, she's cool.
I have a MA in Fine Art, but I make my cash working odd jobs until I begin working on my PhD in archaeology.
So, I suppose you are correct. Good luck with your contract.
Haha, I spelled "cite" wrong. Maybe I'm just one of those kids they let "slip through the system".
Damn, there's no spell-check on here.
Ahh, I see. I knew a lot of poverty-stricken archeologists in Michigan (mostly studying the Hopewell). I myself wanted to do my B.S. in Egyptology until they closed the Tel El-Amarna site in Egypt. That was sad. And shows my elderliness. Ack.
What's wrong with you people? Even if you are just a "peon" at a local gallery, you shouldn't be knocking one another! You may need eachother one day.
Local Gallery Peons UNITE!
Ann, you can have my price list any day!
so under your stupid, anonymous rules, ann can't publish the price of a painting for sale to the public in a public gallery?!?! are you insane?!?! this is AMERICA, you can provide that information to the public?
and as for this talk of defimation, etc. this is a country that was founded (at least partially) on freedom of speech. having an opinion is perfectly fine. criticisizing vince's criticism is perfectly ok.
and Ann does know what she's talking about - she's an art professional, has a college degree in art, and goes to more shows than anyone else.
should artnet's art price sales histories be taken down? should every art auction catalog be burned?
you, gallery peon," are an idiot. price history in art is completely valid. educated people call it a "research tool."
grow up. and try to be professional. maybe post a picture so we can take cheap shots at your haircut?
ken, I don't know what you're talking about. That's just blasphemy to encourage INFORMED CONSUMERS. I mean, what would big corporations do if their consumers researched and demanded a fair price? Not to mention little art galleries. Crazy! ;-P
the art price thing would be no problem if all of the prices are consistent.
if you have work from the same series at several different galleries the prices should be the same.
this would put a lid on all the comparisons and the "he said she saids" about prices that were seen at another vendor.
And maybe that lower price was because a discount was given to a long time patron. In any event, that is no ones business
Awww, c'mon now...what's wrong with crimped hair in pig-tails?
I love that there is a wikipedia tidbit on Vince Carducci. Sadly, no picture is included.
Can you even add photos on wikipedia? That would be funny...take his photo and photoshop it with Danny DeVito!
Ann:
Look, from the pov of someone who was born in Detroit but now lives in NYC and is deeply involved in the art world, I can only say that Carducci should only be concerned with his own opinions and not those of others. It's not not like he's a Nobel prize laureate. In NYC, even with critics I happen to respect like Jerry Saltz, Roberta Smith, and others, I always take (or leave) their critique at face value. That's as it should be. A critic critiquing another critic in their art review is, in most cases, dreary and boring.
As to your assertion regarding the work itself, I do agree with Carducci on one small point - you summarily dismissed the work with a backhanded wave of your hand (figuratively speaking), and a bit more precision offered from your end would have been welcomed. I did find your thoughts (or how you displayed them) to be quite generalized and not specific enough. We should (want to!) hear more of not what you think, but WHY you feel that way. Dig deeper. Likes and dislikes are one thing - profound critical thought is another.
As to the gallery-prankmonkey who wrote about hiding price lists, I've got news for you - if you REALLY think that your artist(s) are going to be SO damaged by what one blogger (or Jerry Saltz in the Village Voice or Roberta Smith in the NY Times) writes, than you shouldn't be showing that artist in the first place. And you CERTAINLY shouldn't withhold price lists, or additional information from Ann. Or anybody else, for that matter. It's assinine behaviour. If the artist(s) work can't stand up to some criticism (whether elegantly thought out or not) than that artist(s) is not worth exhibiting - period! And as to the business of art - it's irrelevant to critical discourse - unless the discourse IS specifically about business and art. And as to your assertion regarding Ann being sued for slander or defamation of character, surely you jest. First, there are First Amendment rights. More importantly, can you imagine how retarded a gallery would appear in the press if they actually sued someone because that person(s) didn't like an art exhibition at the gallery and wrote about it? Get a life!
Oh my - this was also hilarious - from the same gallery-prankmonkey - "... Not so long ago I overheard a client who wanted to pay far less for a piece than was being asked. Why, you ask? Because they said that they were a reader of Ann's blog and saw that another art dealer sold the artists' work for far less months earlier..." Oh you mean the collector was actually an informed consumer and requested a discount? Welcome to the real world, gallery-prankmonkey. Maybe you should get those 'big ears' (as you described them) pinned back and just focus on representing the artists you exhibit.
Ann's a hack, period.
Ah, just when this post was getting interesting -- anonymous pops up again to drag it down.
It was good to read comments that talked about art issues, here and elsewhere. And that just didn't slam.
Although I didn't always agree with Todd, he made good points and intelligently and this post/thread should've ended there. That's when the blog works best.
I agree with jef on this one. I totally appreciate comments like todd's. It's that kind of constructive criticism that makes me want to reconcile with this blog. I have nothing against ann or the way she runs it. It's everyone that is passive aggressive on here that I can't stand and refuse to be a part of. Frankly, it's embarrasing. You want a more thriving artist community? well start by supporting your fellow artists, even if you don't like their work. I'm all about criticism on my work but not when it gets personal and things are said that have nothing to do with the work.
much love to you ann. keep it up. you'll get douchebags anywhere you go, and I'm sure you know you just have to take it and keep on truckin. Not to say that anyone who doesn't like what you're doing is a douchebag, but people that can't formulate a thoughtful critique of the blog, and then have the nerve to tell you you're a "hack" because YOU can't formulate a thoughtful critique is just ridiculous.
For all you people that just love to crap on everything...unless you want to start paying ann for all her hard work, then I dont think you have much say in how the blog should be run. As a blogger myself I know how much effort even the seemingly simplist post can take at times (especially with blogger...it's rather inefficient). So who are you to throw a temper tantrum about how ann doesn't do a good enough job? As someone who volunteers his time quite a bit, one of the most frustrating things is to have someone be rude to you about how you are doing your job when they're not even paying you.
just to add more "two cents", and hopefully end this thread......
echoing John and Jef......
There are a few people in our community who have devoted their whole lives to the arts....Ann is one of them. Between her jobs, her blog, her writing, and her own visual works, she has totally immersed herself and shares all she experiences.
I had to meet with new CCS freshmen last night to introduce them to our area. I had a nice talk with 7 brand new artists, and when it came time to talk about alumni, I told them about Ann---to give them some idea of what being in a community means.
Anonymous, Ann's not the hack, you are. Whatever she does, whatever she says, she stands behind her own name.
I never said Ann was a hack....that's another "anon" (as you dedicated bloggers like to put it).
Thanks,
-Big Eared, Coffee-making Gallery Monkey
How in the hell are we supposed to know which ANON is which???
Go back 4 posts.
Nextt time you post, use ANON 1 or something to distinguish yourself from the others
You're correct, why blame the wrong guy or gal?
They call me Joe.
You bloggers have obviously proven me wrong. And, you're all right, Ann's blog is a good service to those who enjoy art in the community. Perhaps she should be paid as blogger "m." said. What she does here is a lot of work. I certainly would not be able to keep this blog up without some sort of compensation.
Wow I didn’t come on for a few days and all hell brakes loose ..lol nice ann! First off..I wonder what Duchamp or Warhal would have said about the use of one of the few articles in a “more than struggling art community” to pretentiously bolster the importance of ones own intellect over an active artist attempting to provide attention to the art community in which she belongs.
WHAT WAS SHE THINKING…how could anyone possibly have a legitimate comment about Detroit’s art scene with out a masters …maybe she shouldn’t speak at all…I wonder if the big V would have validated Basquiat’s opinion on art… or if he would have tried to publicly berate him while offering no help to the art community… allthe while saying because I’m smarter…lol.. .
And as for the angry gallery “lackey” …you’re just pathetic…nothing more…
By seeing that ann’s blog has an on going dialogue, activity, and interest proves that the antiquated critique and gallery system have failed.. and once again the real artist are forced to create avenues and outlets such as blogs to get the information out..and frankly Anns doing a better job than you Vince…so step it up.. you have the intellect and historical foundation …”right” …so lets see what can you do...
Ps Ann I like your hair :)
I love your wry humor
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