Monday, August 14, 2006

get to know your mocad artists...

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jon pylypchuk
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46 Comments:

Anonymous isotope feeney said...

oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM  
Anonymous matt d. said...

another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM  
Anonymous Microbe said...

You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM  
Anonymous gelbaz said...

Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM  
Anonymous m. said...

microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM  
Anonymous isotope feeney said...

i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM  
Anonymous isotope feeney said...

ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM  
Anonymous Microbe said...

Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM  
Blogger John Morris said...

I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM  
Anonymous ima sheepfucker said...

does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM  
Anonymous isotope feeney said...

oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM  
Anonymous Ima sheepfucker said...

reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM

3:34 PM  
Anonymous matt said...

you should check out the interview in the detroiter. the artist gives a what the world thinks of detroit bit and how now that he's been here he'll let other people know about what's going on here, it's a good asrticle and im sure most of the people complaining about this show don't have a shot in hell of being in the show there. also a good opening will help to draw attention to the space which is of course they are doing what they are doing, why can't you just chill out for a minute. there seems to be a lot of misdirecte denergy and hostility

6:32 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Its funny to hear these people continually complain about artists complaining. Seems the strategy shared by George Bush. When people complain paint them to be extremists and tell them they should feel lucky they don't live in Inkia or Istanblush or Johannasburger or Turkey!
Just shut up and "learn to love it" Baby!

11:28 PM  
Blogger Jef Bourgeau said...

These are a few of the suggested artists DAGMA gave to MOCAD in April. It was a short list just to get them thinking Detroit. The photo/examples don't translate here.
The list was to simply be a starting point for MOCAD and Kertess. All have done installation work, which Kertess decided upon once seeing and realizing the building was a "ruin" and unsuitable for painting.
Any one of these Detroiters (and several others not listed) could stand side by side with Kertess's chosen. They chose to turn their backs on them all:

For any art community to flourish, it has to feed itself. It creates a contemporary museum that serves out-of-town fare along with local dishes. This in turn creates a dialogue between artists and art communities here and elsewhere.

One would hope that at MOCAD different kinds of artists using different mediums will be encouraged to exhibit here - and share their ideas alongside Detroit’s artists, all in the pursuit of a shared voice, a voice that then allows us to connect with each other, back and forth.


A few of the suggested installation artists:

Marie Gardeski -
Gardeski explores the relationship between humor and the uncanny as she creates familiar, yet disturbing scenes sometimes involving violence, usually evoking pathos. Characters appear and reappear.



Artist Iain Baxter -
pours distilled water over stuffed animals and seals them in canning jars. He heaps tin cans stripped of their labels in grocery carts. He arranges commercial products on shelves, his brand of still life inspired by the wonderful paintings of Giorgio Morandi.


Clint Snider -

The found objects took on a different identity when dipped in the thick painted colors. One can imagine the gritty, dirty pieces under the happy color scheme. I found that everyone interested in the wall started picking out their favorites and creating matches to put up on their walls.


Abigail Newbold -

received her MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art in 2005. While at Cranbrook she was nominated for several awards including Daimler Chrysler’s Emerging Artist Award. Following graduation she has worked as studio assistant to former professor Jane Lackey, head of the Fiber Department as well as Assistant Preparator at the Cranbrook Art Museum. She will commence teaching fiber as an adjunct teacher in the Craft department at College for Creative Studies this coming January.

Mikolaj Szoska -
grew up in Krakow, Poland. Throughout his life he has made numerous approaches at art making. Most formal ones (slightly misconceived) include his peripheral but occasionally serious engagement with architecture and collaboration with New York based multi-disciplinary theater company Waxfactory. Currently his is occupied with mediating his life experience through video installations. Combining sculptural objects with moving image he hopes to present preferably entertaining and engaging reflections on life.


and/or The DDD Group -
paint it orange: Kertess has described the MOCAD building as another of Detroit's ruins.

3:21 AM  
Anonymous m. said...

if you read the entire article ... all I can say is that you're crazy if you don't pick up on the backhanded insults to the city of Detroit. "Oh, isn't all this poverty adorable? I'm going to go tell all my friends that Detroit is the new place to visit urban decay".

I find it insulting that they're creating installation work to represent Detroit (shanties, esp.) after just a 2-hour tour of the city which appearantly makes them experts on what is going on there, and that they're going to feed this cursory opinion back to the michigan community at large...

But what do I know? I'm not an artist, just a humble arts manager, editor, gallery director. All I'm saying is that if I had the audacity to pull a similar stunt here in Seattle I wouldn't have a job any longer. And I'm saying for ANY show, much less the opening show of a new local gallery.

As for the backlash on this board... I have read some silly discussions/arguements over semantics in other threads. This, however, happens to be a real problem that actually deserves backlash. It's not just the artists that are disgusted w/ MOCAD's choices.

12:26 PM  
Anonymous dennis jones said...

Jeff,

You failed to include my name with your MOCAD list. I'm sure it was only an oversite or clerical error though and I forgive you for not plugging my work.

2:51 PM  
Blogger cmcgraw said...

isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM


Anonymous said...
isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM

3:34 PM


matt said...
you should check out the interview in the detroiter. the artist gives a what the world thinks of detroit bit and how now that he's been here he'll let other people know about what's going on here, it's a good asrticle and im sure most of the people complaining about this show don't have a shot in hell of being in the show there. also a good opening will help to draw attention to the space which is of course they are doing what they are doing, why can't you just chill out for a minute. there seems to be a lot of misdirecte denergy and hostility

6:32 PM


Anonymous said...
Its funny to hear these people continually complain about artists complaining. Seems the strategy shared by George Bush. When people complain paint them to be extremists and tell them they should feel lucky they don't live in Inkia or Istanblush or Johannasburger or Turkey!
Just shut up and "learn to love it" Baby!

11:28 PM


Jef Bourgeau said...
These are a few of the suggested artists DAGMA gave to MOCAD in April. It was a short list just to get them thinking Detroit. The photo/examples don't translate here.
The list was to simply be a starting point for MOCAD and Kertess. All have done installation work, which Kertess decided upon once seeing and realizing the building was a "ruin" and unsuitable for painting.
Any one of these Detroiters (and several others not listed) could stand side by side with Kertess's chosen. They chose to turn their backs on them all:

For any art community to flourish, it has to feed itself. It creates a contemporary museum that serves out-of-town fare along with local dishes. This in turn creates a dialogue between artists and art communities here and elsewhere.

One would hope that at MOCAD different kinds of artists using different mediums will be encouraged to exhibit here - and share their ideas alongside Detroit’s artists, all in the pursuit of a shared voice, a voice that then allows us to connect with each other, back and forth.


A few of the suggested installation artists:

Marie Gardeski -
Gardeski explores the relationship between humor and the uncanny as she creates familiar, yet disturbing scenes sometimes involving violence, usually evoking pathos. Characters appear and reappear.



Artist Iain Baxter -
pours distilled water over stuffed animals and seals them in canning jars. He heaps tin cans stripped of their labels in grocery carts. He arranges commercial products on shelves, his brand of still life inspired by the wonderful paintings of Giorgio Morandi.


Clint Snider -

The found objects took on a different identity when dipped in the thick painted colors. One can imagine the gritty, dirty pieces under the happy color scheme. I found that everyone interested in the wall started picking out their favorites and creating matches to put up on their walls.


Abigail Newbold -

received her MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art in 2005. While at Cranbrook she was nominated for several awards including Daimler Chrysler’s Emerging Artist Award. Following graduation she has worked as studio assistant to former professor Jane Lackey, head of the Fiber Department as well as Assistant Preparator at the Cranbrook Art Museum. She will commence teaching fiber as an adjunct teacher in the Craft department at College for Creative Studies this coming January.

Mikolaj Szoska -
grew up in Krakow, Poland. Throughout his life he has made numerous approaches at art making. Most formal ones (slightly misconceived) include his peripheral but occasionally serious engagement with architecture and collaboration with New York based multi-disciplinary theater company Waxfactory. Currently his is occupied with mediating his life experience through video installations. Combining sculptural objects with moving image he hopes to present preferably entertaining and engaging reflections on life.


and/or The DDD Group -
paint it orange: Kertess has described the MOCAD building as another of Detroit's ruins.

3:21 AM


m. said...
if you read the entire article ... all I can say is that you're crazy if you don't pick up on the backhanded insults to the city of Detroit. "Oh, isn't all this poverty adorable? I'm going to go tell all my friends that Detroit is the new place to visit urban decay".

I find it insulting that they're creating installation work to represent Detroit (shanties, esp.) after just a 2-hour tour of the city which appearantly makes them experts on what is going on there, and that they're going to feed this cursory opinion back to the michigan community at large...

But what do I know? I'm not an artist, just a humble arts manager, editor, gallery director. All I'm saying is that if I had the audacity to pull a similar stunt here in Seattle I wouldn't have a job any longer. And I'm saying for ANY show, much less the opening show of a new local gallery.

As for the backlash on this board... I have read some silly discussions/arguements over semantics in other threads. This, however, happens to be a real problem that actually deserves backlash. It's not just the artists that are disgusted w/ MOCAD's choices.

12:26 PM


dennis jones said...
Jeff,

You failed to include my name with your MOCAD list. I'm sure it was only an oversite or clerical error though and I forgive you for not plugging my work.

2:51 PM

4:28 PM  
Anonymous buttcher said...

here are a few names----

Richard Bennett
Chris Turner
Saffell Gardner
Gilda Snowden
Anita Ricks-Bates
Senghor Reid
Rico Africa
Jack Johnson
Richard Lewis
Bryant Tillman


great artists

4:53 PM  
Blogger Jef Bourgeau said...

It was a short list of installation artists, not necessarily a complete or only list. I'm not going to do all of MOCAD's work for them. I was just trying to prime them.

If Dennis wants to be included, or any other artist ought, send your lists to join mine over to MOCAD:

Mitch Cope (who was described in the Detroiter article as Acting-Director) - AlphaCate@aol.com

Marsha Miro (who is the self-described director) - MMiro@cranbrook.edu
or,
daisytulip@aol.com

12:16 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM


Anonymous said...
isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM

3:34 PM


matt said...
you should check out the interview in the detroiter. the artist gives a what the world thinks of detroit bit and how now that he's been here he'll let other people know about what's going on here, it's a good asrticle and im sure most of the people complaining about this show don't have a shot in hell of being in the show there. also a good opening will help to draw attention to the space which is of course they are doing what they are doing, why can't you just chill out for a minute. there seems to be a lot of misdirecte denergy and hostility

6:32 PM


Anonymous said...
Its funny to hear these people continually complain about artists complaining. Seems the strategy shared by George Bush. When people complain paint them to be extremists and tell them they should feel lucky they don't live in Inkia or Istanblush or Johannasburger or Turkey!
Just shut up and "learn to love it" Baby!

11:28 PM


Jef Bourgeau said...
These are a few of the suggested artists DAGMA gave to MOCAD in April. It was a short list just to get them thinking Detroit. The photo/examples don't translate here.
The list was to simply be a starting point for MOCAD and Kertess. All have done installation work, which Kertess decided upon once seeing and realizing the building was a "ruin" and unsuitable for painting.
Any one of these Detroiters (and several others not listed) could stand side by side with Kertess's chosen. They chose to turn their backs on them all:

For any art community to flourish, it has to feed itself. It creates a contemporary museum that serves out-of-town fare along with local dishes. This in turn creates a dialogue between artists and art communities here and elsewhere.

One would hope that at MOCAD different kinds of artists using different mediums will be encouraged to exhibit here - and share their ideas alongside Detroit’s artists, all in the pursuit of a shared voice, a voice that then allows us to connect with each other, back and forth.


A few of the suggested installation artists:

Marie Gardeski -
Gardeski explores the relationship between humor and the uncanny as she creates familiar, yet disturbing scenes sometimes involving violence, usually evoking pathos. Characters appear and reappear.



Artist Iain Baxter -
pours distilled water over stuffed animals and seals them in canning jars. He heaps tin cans stripped of their labels in grocery carts. He arranges commercial products on shelves, his brand of still life inspired by the wonderful paintings of Giorgio Morandi.


Clint Snider -

The found objects took on a different identity when dipped in the thick painted colors. One can imagine the gritty, dirty pieces under the happy color scheme. I found that everyone interested in the wall started picking out their favorites and creating matches to put up on their walls.


Abigail Newbold -

received her MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art in 2005. While at Cranbrook she was nominated for several awards including Daimler Chrysler’s Emerging Artist Award. Following graduation she has worked as studio assistant to former professor Jane Lackey, head of the Fiber Department as well as Assistant Preparator at the Cranbrook Art Museum. She will commence teaching fiber as an adjunct teacher in the Craft department at College for Creative Studies this coming January.

Mikolaj Szoska -
grew up in Krakow, Poland. Throughout his life he has made numerous approaches at art making. Most formal ones (slightly misconceived) include his peripheral but occasionally serious engagement with architecture and collaboration with New York based multi-disciplinary theater company Waxfactory. Currently his is occupied with mediating his life experience through video installations. Combining sculptural objects with moving image he hopes to present preferably entertaining and engaging reflections on life.


and/or The DDD Group -
paint it orange: Kertess has described the MOCAD building as another of Detroit's ruins.

3:21 AM


m. said...
if you read the entire article ... all I can say is that you're crazy if you don't pick up on the backhanded insults to the city of Detroit. "Oh, isn't all this poverty adorable? I'm going to go tell all my friends that Detroit is the new place to visit urban decay".

I find it insulting that they're creating installation work to represent Detroit (shanties, esp.) after just a 2-hour tour of the city which appearantly makes them experts on what is going on there, and that they're going to feed this cursory opinion back to the michigan community at large...

But what do I know? I'm not an artist, just a humble arts manager, editor, gallery director. All I'm saying is that if I had the audacity to pull a similar stunt here in Seattle I wouldn't have a job any longer. And I'm saying for ANY show, much less the opening show of a new local gallery.

As for the backlash on this board... I have read some silly discussions/arguements over semantics in other threads. This, however, happens to be a real problem that actually deserves backlash. It's not just the artists that are disgusted w/ MOCAD's choices.

12:26 PM


dennis jones said...
Jeff,

You failed to include my name with your MOCAD list. I'm sure it was only an oversite or clerical error though and I forgive you for not plugging my work.

2:51 PM


cmcgraw said...
isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM


Anonymous said...
isotope feeney said...
oh no. is this a joke or what.

8:23 AM


Anonymous said...
It will be, Isotope, it will be.

9:26 AM


matt d. said...
another saatchi protegee cum josh smith.

10:09 AM


Microbe said...
You Detroit artists are so bitter. This guy's work is great, of course this is only subjective. It seems, though as if yours is invective. I've been mulling over all of this backlash about there not being a detroit artist selected for the first show and it is just that, a first show. I would think it to be more important to direct the attention of artists outside of detroit and the attention of the art world will follow. give it time. the mca in chicago use to have these shows called ten by ten, which showcased the talents of a local emerging artist next to more internationally known artists. perhaps this is the type of thing that would benefit the detroit art community down the road. the thing most of you people don't understand is that sometimes you have to play the game in order to get recognized. whining and a sense of entitlement will not make your work look better to an already jaded art world. international recognition for an arts institution within detroit would be entirely benevolent. the worst part of all this recent rethoric is the "we discovered junk art" mentality that seems to be floating around. if you look at this man's entire ouvre it is obvious that he is not stopping at painting a steel grate in martha stewart colors in a sad attempt at being profound. royal art lodge will crush you all.

12:03 PM


gelbaz said...
Jeez, Mike, lighten up.

2:30 PM


m. said...
microbe, you have some true points about the whining and bitter whiny-ness on this site. However, you can not deny that these curators are serving their own purposes which one can not assume is an ultruistic way of reaching long-term recognition for Detroit. More obviously a short-term way of slightly veiled hob-nobbing. They are not making sound curatorial decisions, the evidence of which is the bitter back-lash you mentioned. A good curator would ballance the needs of the community with the needs for larger recognition. You can not have a detroit gallery if you piss off the detroit community... basic fact. That's all part of playing the arts management game. And it's not just this board. The community as a whole (at least, the arts management community) are begining to take notice... I know that MOCAD has been recently discussed in a graduate level course as an example of what NOT to do. Dissapointing, for something that had a lot of potential to help. One can only hope it will turn itself around. But don't think that the detroit arts community has no right to be outraged by exclusion not only to the first, but the first several shows. Especially when there are articles circulating where the curator claims not to have hit "pay dirt" with any Detroit art whatsoever.

4:37 PM


isotope feeney said...
i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy. i have seen this artist work before so there is a frame of referance. i am not gettinginto the 'detroit art or no detroit art' debate. i just think this work is bad.

7:14 PM


isotope feeney said...
ps i am not an artist i just have an opinion

7:16 PM


Microbe said...
Let us not hide the irony of someone who uses the abject and gets a reaction like "i said this is a joke because the work looks crappy". This is obviously the heightened rhetoric of someone with not only an opinion, but a very valid one at that. in fact, i was just thinking the other day about how paul mccarthy's work looked "crappy". what a joke. what about wim delvoye's CLOACA, that not only looked crappy, but it smelled and was all crappy. yeeesh. could you detect the sarcasm. I am an artist and i make work that looks nothing like that of many artists that i admire, many of which who make work that technically looks crappy. yet, i don't dismiss work as a joke (unless it quite literally is) in order to feel better about my opinions. why not elaborate? what do you find abject or crappy about the work? is it possible that this aesthetic is employed as a means of evoking a sense of playing in one's own shit? and where does that take us?

12:53 AM


John Morris said...
I just know so little of what goes on in Detroit, I am from NY and now live in Pittsburgh. I just want to make a point that might be totally off the mark.

It seems like there might be some anger out there and resentment over out of town artists taking space from local artists. Pittsburgh has a totally two tier system for the most part in which the major institutions ( except for the Mattress Factory ) focus on art stars and out of town acts and other galleries and non profits are almost compltely all Pittsburgh artists.
This segmentation into ghetto's has been so destructive and kept things very provincial and isolated. Ironically attempts to change this run into resistance from artists who have developed in this cocoon and feel entitled to exhibition spaces.

don't go down that road

3:52 AM


ima sheepfucker said...
does that second one have a little penis getting played with.....thats a classic.

10:52 AM


isotope feeney said...
oh jeez yes.....and it is moronic

11:53 AM


Ima sheepfucker said...
reminds me of when i was 23 and used to put a little peanut butter on the end of my wang and then let the dog lick it off. It was great until ole' rover started to bite.
I plan on recreating my memory on opening night at MOCAD. i will be outside with the band. look for the short bearded man with very small hands and a red knit hat.

12:07 PM


Anonymous said...
Thanks John M for the perspective.
I think most of us feel there needs to be more intergration. We have galleries that show out of town artists and sometimes we even have a show that makes connection between out of town artists and locals. This contemporary is a big disheartening mess at the moment.

12:30 PM


Anonymous said...
dont worry most of the people bitching now about MOCAD will be bitching in 6 months when MOCAD posts the weekend work schedules for the coffee shop and gift shop employees.

Learn to love it. MOCAD will be the best damn thing to happen in the backwater part of the midwest since Jackson Pollock took a dump at the train station on a stop over on his way to NY from California.

12:54 PM


Anonymous said...
You must have broken a mirror today.

2:42 PM

3:34 PM


matt said...
you should check out the interview in the detroiter. the artist gives a what the world thinks of detroit bit and how now that he's been here he'll let other people know about what's going on here, it's a good asrticle and im sure most of the people complaining about this show don't have a shot in hell of being in the show there. also a good opening will help to draw attention to the space which is of course they are doing what they are doing, why can't you just chill out for a minute. there seems to be a lot of misdirecte denergy and hostility

6:32 PM


Anonymous said...
Its funny to hear these people continually complain about artists complaining. Seems the strategy shared by George Bush. When people complain paint them to be extremists and tell them they should feel lucky they don't live in Inkia or Istanblush or Johannasburger or Turkey!
Just shut up and "learn to love it" Baby!

11:28 PM


Jef Bourgeau said...
These are a few of the suggested artists DAGMA gave to MOCAD in April. It was a short list just to get them thinking Detroit. The photo/examples don't translate here.
The list was to simply be a starting point for MOCAD and Kertess. All have done installation work, which Kertess decided upon once seeing and realizing the building was a "ruin" and unsuitable for painting.
Any one of these Detroiters (and several others not listed) could stand side by side with Kertess's chosen. They chose to turn their backs on them all:

For any art community to flourish, it has to feed itself. It creates a contemporary museum that serves out-of-town fare along with local dishes. This in turn creates a dialogue between artists and art communities here and elsewhere.

One would hope that at MOCAD different kinds of artists using different mediums will be encouraged to exhibit here - and share their ideas alongside Detroit’s artists, all in the pursuit of a shared voice, a voice that then allows us to connect with each other, back and forth.


A few of the suggested installation artists:

Marie Gardeski -
Gardeski explores the relationship between humor and the uncanny as she creates familiar, yet disturbing scenes sometimes involving violence, usually evoking pathos. Characters appear and reappear.



Artist Iain Baxter -
pours distilled water over stuffed animals and seals them in canning jars. He heaps tin cans stripped of their labels in grocery carts. He arranges commercial products on shelves, his brand of still life inspired by the wonderful paintings of Giorgio Morandi.


Clint Snider -

The found objects took on a different identity when dipped in the thick painted colors. One can imagine the gritty, dirty pieces under the happy color scheme. I found that everyone interested in the wall started picking out their favorites and creating matches to put up on their walls.


Abigail Newbold -

received her MFA from Cranbrook Academy of Art in 2005. While at Cranbrook she was nominated for several awards including Daimler Chrysler’s Emerging Artist Award. Following graduation she has worked as studio assistant to former professor Jane Lackey, head of the Fiber Department as well as Assistant Preparator at the Cranbrook Art Museum. She will commence teaching fiber as an adjunct teacher in the Craft department at College for Creative Studies this coming January.

Mikolaj Szoska -
grew up in Krakow, Poland. Throughout his life he has made numerous approaches at art making. Most formal ones (slightly misconceived) include his peripheral but occasionally serious engagement with architecture and collaboration with New York based multi-disciplinary theater company Waxfactory. Currently his is occupied with mediating his life experience through video installations. Combining sculptural objects with moving image he hopes to present preferably entertaining and engaging reflections on life.


and/or The DDD Group -
paint it orange: Kertess has described the MOCAD building as another of Detroit's ruins.

3:21 AM


m. said...
if you read the entire article ... all I can say is that you're crazy if you don't pick up on the backhanded insults to the city of Detroit. "Oh, isn't all this poverty adorable? I'm going to go tell all my friends that Detroit is the new place to visit urban decay".

I find it insulting that they're creating installation work to represent Detroit (shanties, esp.) after just a 2-hour tour of the city which appearantly makes them experts on what is going on there, and that they're going to feed this cursory opinion back to the michigan community at large...

But what do I know? I'm not an artist, just a humble arts manager, editor, gallery director. All I'm saying is that if I had the audacity to pull a similar stunt here in Seattle I wouldn't have a job any longer. And I'm saying for ANY show, much less the opening show of a new local gallery.

As for the backlash on this board... I have read some silly discussions/arguements over semantics in other threads. This, however, happens to be a real problem that actually deserves backlash. It's not just the artists that are disgusted w/ MOCAD's choices.

12:26 PM


dennis jones said...
Jeff,

You failed to include my name with your MOCAD list. I'm sure it was only an oversite or clerical error though and I forgive you for not plugging my work.

2:51 PM

4:28 PM


buttcher said...
here are a few names----

Richard Bennett
Chris Turner
Saffell Gardner
Gilda Snowden
Anita Ricks-Bates
Senghor Reid
Rico Africa
Jack Johnson
Richard Lewis
Bryant Tillman


great artists

4:53 PM


Jef Bourgeau said...
It was a short list of installation artists, not necessarily a complete or only list. I'm not going to do all of MOCAD's work for them. I was just trying to prime them.

If Dennis wants to be included, or any other artist ought, send your lists to join mine over to MOCAD:

Mitch Cope (who was described in the Detroiter article as Acting-Director) - AlphaCate@aol.com

Marsha Miro (who is the self-described director) - MMiro@cranbrook.edu
or,
daisytulip@aol.com

12:16 AM

1:55 AM  
Blogger Jef Bourgeau said...

correction: send installation lists (for first show) and others for future shows to mitch cope at:

mcope31@comcast.net

m_cope@lycos.com

1:55 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Why not have people just send their lists to the thread here!
Share what you think with all rather than end up in and exclusive file 13.
I am working on mine at the moment..

9:03 AM  
Anonymous dennis jones said...

Jeff,

m_cope@lycos.com is no longer a valid address. I've just tried it and it didn't make it. Is there a street address where they are receiving portfolio packages?

9:24 AM  
Blogger Jef Bourgeau said...

Here is MOCAD's contact info. And post your lists here and send to them. Send your concerns to the steering committee as well.

Why would you only want to post it here? THEY have to become aware of what's happening here. We already know. You need to create a dialogue.

info@mocadetroit.org
248 833 1336

Acting Director: Marsha Miro
mmiro@mocadetroit.org
and/or,
MMiro@cranbrook.edu
and/or,
daisytulip@aol.com

Acting Curator: Mitch Cope
mitch@mocadetroit.org
and/or
AlphaCate@aol.com
and/or
mcope31@comcast.net

Administrator: Addie Langford
alangford@mocadetroit.org

Steering Committee

Burt Aaron baaron@mocadetroit.org

Mitch Cope
mitch@mocadetroit.org

Lynn Crawford lcrawford@mocadetroit.org

Marsha Miro mmiro@mocadetroit.org

Cate Strumbos cstrumbos@mocadetroit.org

Founding Board of Directors
Burt Aaron
Joanne Danto
Linda Dresner
Danialle Karmanos
Marsha Miro
Linden Nelson
Keith Pomeroy
Linda Powers
Terry Rakolta
Cate Strumbos
Shelley Tauber
Julie Taubman
Tanya Heidelberg-Yopp
Joanne Danto

12:54 PM  
Anonymous stephen said...

I went to their site and saw a couple of images of Mitch painting the walls white. The description read "Documentation of MOCAD's first P.R. event in the Spring of 2006: artists painting the walls white to transform the former auto dealership into a contemporary art museum."

Can someone help me? Didn't this happen in 2005? Seems I remember them inviting a select group of "patrons" to whom they never responded (cards were handed out to write your interests, etc in the project). I never got a response.

The were flower petals too?

1:04 PM  
Anonymous mary said...

it happened in may 2005. seems they're already rewriting their own history. which means they've had a year and a half to at least finish painting the walls but doesnt seem so in current photos. not to mention they've had possession of the building for seven years. which ends up being very sad. with names like taubman, manoogian and karamanos involved and they haven't brought it above the standard of "ruin" (Kertess). pathetic.

i helped detroit's first contemporary museum build their walls in detroits book building and patch(my job)(12,000 sq feet of building). there were four guys and they built the supports, plywood underlay, and drywall in one three-day weekend. no kidding. and all the materials had to be hand carried upstairs, sheet by sheet. doesn't seem that mocad has any of that passion. even with all their money.

my advice to them, don't open until the building itself has reached some raw standard as a museum.

ann's info on the first so-called pr blitz by mocad in MAY 2005:

Last night the talks began at the proposed new space at 4454 Woodward. The advisory board includes: Lillian Bauder, Marsha Miro, Keith Pomeroy, Linda Powers, Sharon Rothwell, Julie Reyes Taubman.

Immediately after entering the space Mitch Cope and other artists painted the concrete walls white while classical music played and a path of flowers lead you into the "proposal room". In that room a brief discussion took place on some details of the project to come. They are looking for supporters to help run and fund the huge undertaking. The project is estimated to cost anywhere from around $500,000 to over 1 million to get started. The panel seemed interested in pleasing everyone so nothing specific was said. I get that the idea is that they want to find funding first before they specify how it will be run. They talked about having LOCAL ARTISTS involved along with finding other out of state more established artists exhibiting. The site could hold anything from installations, music events...dance, and even bringing in local high schools to be involved. The also strayed away from developing a permanent collection.

I understand they don't want to step on anyone's toes but I think that we need to have a "serious" museum that gets the respect and crowds it deserves if this whole project comes full circle.

Architects drew up scale models with blueprints and scale models for people to view. The event was encouraging and hopefully the word will spread and the DIA will not discourage talks.

(picture)
Mitch Cope and artists painting walls

1:18 PM  
Anonymous matt d. said...

who is the local artist that made sort-of stuffed animals, maybe inside out and recreated into something else. her work was just as fine as this guys. i saw some at bbac in spring maybe.

as a detroit native, and the paid curator, mitch sure isn't doing his job if he couldn't lead kertiss to at least one detroit artist for this show. fire him! now! it's not too late.

2:44 PM  
Anonymous cranker said...

mary fortuna

10:13 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I am sure Kertress was not out looking for stuffed animals.

10:43 PM  
Anonymous matt d. said...

yeh, mary's a good one -- with leather. but there's another one too who uses soft materials.

anyway that's two detroiters.

although i like this guy's titles, Erections Pointing at Stars and Angels. and, two of his golfer cats talking: if you make this one i'll suck your cock for an hour.

i like his stuff, but a review from a recent show finds a paucity of the artists imagination, the limited scope of his references and inspiration. It’s clear this man has a sculptural eye but he is still looking for something substantial to do with it.

12:58 AM  
Anonymous MC said...

Mitch Cope will be in the second show and he's a Detroit artist. What're you all bitching about?

Good find, Mitch.

10:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Took a little while:

Tyree Guyton
Frank Pahl
Catherine Peet
Christopher Fachini
Robert Sestok
Vito Valdez
Christine Hagedorn
Lisa Whiting

These are suggestions for an intergrated show of Detroit and the more national artists form New York.. I could easily add more.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

In his own way, Mitch will be represented in the first show too: in his zine and in a book of photography about Detroit (if it's published by MOCAD in time).

The ultimate player.

11:08 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

This entire complaint site is very, very scary and misguided. Do you go to the Walker looking for Minneapolis artists? The CMA looking for Chicago artists? Cleveland MOCA for Cleveland artists? What about when MOCAD does start to have some local artists, after MOCAD has earned grant status by having universally solid shows first--won't these so-called ARTISTS feel very childish for their misguided resentments(and they better have tried to build a career in a wide artworld beyond Detroit to really be considered artists, with a committment to the WIDE world of ideas (as an analogy--do novelists want/need to be read only in their locale? and should libraries focus on local writers only??)How could ARTISTS suggest boycotting a contemporary art museum, and possibly make it's fight to sustain that much harder? Please stay open-minded and flexible( as creative people usually are) , and focus on the great potential coming soon.

1:48 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

We are talking about potential here. No one here is expecting only Detroit artists at the museum.
Why be so foolish?

7:41 PM  
Anonymous matt d. said...

it's the mca, not cma, in chicago -- and yes they did include chicago artists in their very first show. (as the curator of that first chicago museum show stated: there's no good reason not to.)

and they've included them ever since, and have even set up the monthly artist exhibits to profile local talent.

and yes you do see minneapolis artists at the walker. and local artists in cincinnati. and in houston, and in la, and san francisco. wherever there's a contemporary museum, there are that city's artists included in shows.

and yes even at ps 1 and the whitney and moma in ny.

12:32 AM  
Anonymous chris said...

i don't know what the fuss is all about cause this mocad isn't going to last anyway. misguided and childish in their relations with the community, collectors and artists here they're doomed to fail.

12:36 AM  
Anonymous christine said...

I visited MoCAD'S site and they say that a membership includes entrance fees for exhibits. Does this mean their goin to make us pay to get in?

12:39 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like the yelling and heartache I'm reading. People are always so nice at openings

How much did MOCAD cost ANYWAY? Besides all the spilled blood and words?

It's one itty-bitty little building. Bite-sized. I think it might be fun, especially if all the threats I'm reading are true about those who will masturbate outside the openings, or involve dogs or some such...might be a nice(r) PR event than they could have dreamed up or afforded.

I say the place to 'burn' is Hillberry. That woman's hair will go up like a haystack!!! And all those "great" J.Smith's still in storage. two birds ya know....

6:23 PM  
Anonymous buttcher said...

re this last post commenting on hilberry........

???????????????????????????

12:37 PM  

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